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LaughingCheese Expert
Joined: 24 Mar 2008 Posts: 138
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:16 pm Post subject: Why are some Makerbot parts laser cut? |
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If you have looked up the MakerBot parts list before, you will notice that some of the parts are laser cut.
I was wondering why that is, doesn't that up the price a bit?
Couldn't those same parts be milled just as well on a dremel?
Or would Dremeling those parts be imprecise? |
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Benjaminvegeta Novice
Joined: 21 Feb 2010 Posts: 36 Location: Bavaria/Germany
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:46 am Post subject: |
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It is that way, because the designers of the machine wanted it that way.
Of course you can just dremel the parts but itīs a lot more work to build every single piece than to simply getting them laser cut.
The makerbot plans are meant for simplicity: Take the files to a shop with laser cutter and take the finished parts home.
But routing them with a dremel when done properly should work just as fine as laser cutted parts _________________ If it doesnīt exist, build it! |
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LaughingCheese Expert
Joined: 24 Mar 2008 Posts: 138
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:57 am Post subject: |
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Benjaminvegeta wrote: | It is that way, because the designers of the machine wanted it that way.
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Of course, just wondering if it can be done any cheaper than the cost of renting a laser cutter.
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Of course you can just dremel the parts but itīs a lot more work to build every single piece than to simply getting them laser cut.
The makerbot plans are meant for simplicity: Take the files to a shop with laser cutter and take the finished parts home.
But routing them with a dremel when done properly should work just as fine as laser cutted parts |
What I was thinking of doing was building the McWire mil and then dremeling the pieces for the Maker Bot with that.
However I'm not sure if I want a Maker Bot or a RepRap Mendel.
I still would like to have something that could be a CNC and a 3D printer, just by changing out tool heads.
This is why I'm considering RepRap Mendel, because it has a bigger area than the Maker Bot. Or I may try just building a generic Cartesian bot with a Y axis that has an interchangeable tool head slot. |
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Culvan Novice
Joined: 20 May 2008 Posts: 85 Location: Kansas City, MO
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:32 am Post subject: |
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LaughingCheese wrote: | Of course, just wondering if it can be done any cheaper than the cost of renting a laser cutter. | I suspect it's cheaper if you already have the Laser cutter and have to rent the CNC.
LaughingCheese wrote: | This is why I'm considering RepRap Mendel, because it has a bigger area than the Maker Bot. Or I may try just building a generic Cartesian bot with a Y axis that has an interchangeable tool head slot. | Usually the toolhead is on the Z axis. I'm not saying it can't be done, but the existing software would prefer a tool on the Z-axis.
I'm with you on the desire for a combo machine. Makerbot/reprap have a lot of development going on to improve the way they work. There are concepts in them that don't have a parallel in the CNC world. A pure makerbot/reprap would probably get some advantages from that development. However they method they use to control the stepper motors isn't pretty they have to work hard to keep everything synchronized because they put their processor on the machine rather than let the computer do all the work. The split between the designs limits the cross functionality of many of the components. Failure to stay near the existing standards has led to a situation where there are no spare parts available for the makerbot/reprap.
I like it when divergent systems can use the same components. Both benefit from the development and economies of scale. The parts shortage is what's keeping me from upgrading my machine.
Andy |
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LaughingCheese Expert
Joined: 24 Mar 2008 Posts: 138
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Culvan wrote: | LaughingCheese wrote: | Of course, just wondering if it can be done any cheaper than the cost of renting a laser cutter. | I suspect it's cheaper if you already have the Laser cutter and have to rent the CNC. |
True, but we all don't have access to a laser cutter.
Quote: | Usually the toolhead is on the Z axis. I'm not saying it can't be done, but the existing software would prefer a tool on the Z-axis. |
Oops. That's what I meant actually.
When I was picturing it in my mind writing this post I couldn't remember if it was the Y axis or the Z axis. My bad.
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I'm with you on the desire for a combo machine. Makerbot/reprap have a lot of development going on to improve the way they work. There are concepts in them that don't have a parallel in the CNC world. A pure makerbot/reprap would probably get some advantages from that development. However they method they use to control the stepper motors isn't pretty they have to work hard to keep everything synchronized because they put their processor on the machine rather than let the computer do all the work. The split between the designs limits the cross functionality of many of the components. Failure to stay near the existing standards has led to a situation where there are no spare parts available for the makerbot/reprap. |
You just gave me an idea!
I think the reason Maker Bot/RepRap have separate electronics is because of the print head.
However, I think that for a combo machine if you could somehow find a way to bypass the electronics for the print head when you put a Dremel on, you wouldn't need to worry about them getting in the way.
So, when you want a CNC, swap plastruder for Dremel, and activate the bypass.
Done.
Or is it not that simple? It never is it?
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I like it when divergent systems can use the same components. Both benefit from the development and economies of scale. The parts shortage is what's keeping me from upgrading my machine.
Andy |
The idea of RepRap though is to be able to print its own parts, and perhaps even circuits some day.
I don't really see it being able to print its own motors though, or the metal bars it uses for support.
BTW, if you watched the improvements of Mendel video, I believe they mention that replaceable tool heads is a goal for the next version of the RepRap!
Exciting times. |
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Culvan Novice
Joined: 20 May 2008 Posts: 85 Location: Kansas City, MO
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Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:33 am Post subject: |
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LaughingCheese wrote: |
You just gave me an idea!
I think the reason Maker Bot/RepRap have separate electronics is because of the print head.
However, I think that for a combo machine if you could somehow find a way to bypass the electronics for the print head when you put a Dremel on, you wouldn't need to worry about them getting in the way.
So, when you want a CNC, swap plastruder for Dremel, and activate the bypass.
Done.
Or is it not that simple? It never is it?
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You're not too far off. I think the reason they have different electronics is because the plastruder needs more complex control. There are electronics that need to regulate the temperature of the nozzle. That doesn't really have a parallel with a router or dremel. Once they had the more complex electronics they used them to control their stepper motors too. I believe there is one path of development where they're trying to make it so the makerbot has an SD reader and wouldn't require a connection to a computer at all. Although that would be neat, it's a waste of development time. I doubt that anyone would lack access to a computer who has a makerbot. The computer is required to make the model or transport it faster than the postal service.
LaughingCheese wrote: |
Quote: |
I like it when divergent systems can use the same components. Both benefit from the development and economies of scale. The parts shortage is what's keeping me from upgrading my machine.
Andy |
The idea of RepRap though is to be able to print its own parts, and perhaps even circuits some day.
I don't really see it being able to print its own motors though, or the metal bars it uses for support.
BTW, if you watched the improvements of Mendel video, I believe they mention that replaceable tool heads is a goal for the next version of the RepRap!
Exciting times. |
Printing electronics is tricky. I've read some theoretical articles on it, and these are nowhere near that capability yet. I think it's safe to say they will need multi-material plastruders to do it. Although that looks like the direction the MK5 is going, I don't expect them printing out PCBs anytime soon, much less full circuits.
Andy |
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LaughingCheese Expert
Joined: 24 Mar 2008 Posts: 138
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Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Culvan wrote: |
You're not too far off. I think the reason they have different electronics is because the plastruder needs more complex control. There are electronics that need to regulate the temperature of the nozzle. That doesn't really have a parallel with a router or dremel. Once they had the more complex electronics they used them to control their stepper motors too. I believe there is one path of development where they're trying to make it so the makerbot has an SD reader and wouldn't require a connection to a computer at all. Although that would be neat, it's a waste of development time. I doubt that anyone would lack access to a computer who has a makerbot. The computer is required to make the model or transport it faster than the postal service. |
Um, I still don't see why you just can't turn off 3D printing functionality and just have the electronics control the steppers for the router?
Is it not compatible with G-Code?
Quote: |
Printing electronics is tricky. I've read some theoretical articles on it, and these are nowhere near that capability yet. I think it's safe to say they will need multi-material plastruders to do it. Although that looks like the direction the MK5 is going, I don't expect them printing out PCBs anytime soon, much less full circuits.
Andy |
Mark 5 what? Maker Bot plastruder? |
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Culvan Novice
Joined: 20 May 2008 Posts: 85 Location: Kansas City, MO
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:02 am Post subject: |
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LaughingCheese wrote: |
Um, I still don't see why you just can't turn off 3D printing functionality and just have the electronics control the steppers for the router?
Is it not compatible with G-Code?
| I suppose it would be easier to go from plastruder to a router than vice versa. It's a little more complicated right now because of the parts shortages, but I think there are some full kits available.
Yes they both use G-code (as best i can tell) however the method to interpret the G-code is different. Makerbot/reprap gets the G-code raw over a serial link and interprets it to control the stepper motors. Most hobby CNC machines have the computer interpret the G-code and control the steppers through a parallel connection.
The subtle differences make me hesitate a bit. If they both used pure G-code then there shouldn't be a problem, but the plastruder requires some non-standard stuff. If the machine can operate without it then it should be easy enough. You would need different software for defining your toolpath (adding material with your tool or subtracting material will require a different tooling pattern).
LaughingCheese wrote: | Quote: |
...I think it's safe to say they will need multi-material plastruders to do it. Although that looks like the direction the MK5 is going, |
Mark 5 what? Maker Bot plastruder? | Yes, the MK5 plastruder. It looks like they are going to move the motor further away from the heating nozzle so presumably they can get multiple motors. I'm not sure how they could get multiple materials to come out of the same nozzle position, but they're clever people. I'm sure they'll figure something out.
Andy |
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lizydude
Joined: 15 May 2010 Posts: 1
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the laser cut parts of the prototype objects which are just tiny. This is the reason why it is needed to have a laser cutter. I suppose to own one but because of an inevitable reason, I was failed. _________________ Stereolithography |
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