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panhandle_shovelheadrider
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Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:39 am    Post subject: oven element Reply with quote

I saw a guy make a former with oven element in another post.
I have two working ovens that I use for small powder coating ovens
that has 3000W element controllers and all I need if I use one for parts.
any suggestions.I have Thurston James book and he said his was a starting place try other ways

Finish what you started and you WILL be SUCCESSFUL....
Thomas Edison tried 24,999 times before making the first working battery, how would you like to have a penny for every battery ever made?????


Last edited by panhandle_shovelheadrider on Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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panhandle_shovelheadrider
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Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:01 am    Post subject: going with 3000 w element Reply with quote

it seems like a better way to go than nichrome and saw it done in here
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trapperdale
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Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 106
Location: fresno, california

PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here ii some friendly feed back..

the heating elements you are talking about will work.
heck gas ovens, IR bulbs, solar ovens and many other things will work.

but working well is another story!

READ some of the posts' on watt density.....
even heating of your plastic in controlled zones is strongly advised!
once i caught a trout with a baseball bat...it worked! would i suggest it to someone else? No. hooks work better.

if you are just making thin blister packaging OK.

I am not up to speed on your machine build or proposed projects...
If you are building a toy, yes it will work!
If you are building a Machine for making money, then build it that way!
The material that home oven elements are made from can be purchased in 5' and 10' lengths and then you can make your own heater if you like this material...it is just encapsulated nichrome wire!
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spektr
Master


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 425

PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale is correct... You could listen to many people and not get
as competent advice as his.. We talk and its very good for both of us.

What you need to do on the forum is decide how deep you want to get and listen to those guys who are at least that deep in it.

I also wonder about some guys who give advice to others without even
forming their first part let alone build a machine...........

Good night everybody.......

Scott.
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panhandle_shovelheadrider
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Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:51 am    Post subject: Vac machine build Qvack is where I looked Reply with quote

He seems to do good with the one he made with oven unit and that works in a kitchen oven.
I agree this is a forum for ideas.I like the idea of smaller foot print of an over under set up.
"It is a very sad thing that nowadays there is so little useless information."
Oscar Wilde
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jegner
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Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 2144
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once used a Sunbeam indoor electric grill for an oven on an early draft vac machine. It does work but is uneven heating.

http://www.tk560.com/vactable2.html

A good oven is the secret to a good running machine.
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jdougn
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Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 714
Location: Louisville KY area

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Trapper Dale said, there's lots of stuff that might work. But IMO, as cheap and easy as nichrome is to work with it's just not worth the trouble to try and make something else work. Unless, it's just something you want to experiment around with to see what happens. Never know what you might discover doing that!
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DougN - Just in case you're wondering, I got my "rating" legitimately... by posting aimless drivel, useless advice, and pointless questions.
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panhandle_shovelheadrider
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Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdougn wrote:
As Trapper Dale said, there's lots of stuff that might work. But IMO, as cheap and easy as nichrome is to work with it's just not worth the trouble to try and make something else work. Unless, it's just something you want to experiment around with to see what happens. Never know what you might discover doing that!


when you only have one tool go to sears and a flea market

Finish what you started and you WILL be SUCCESSFUL....
Thomas Edison tried 24,999 times before making the first working battery, how would you like to have a penny for every battery ever made?????
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dbdraggin
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Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edison didn't try at all to make the first working battery. Not even with 6,781,276,809,297,889,723 tries.

Count Alassandro Volta, sometime around 1800, did.

Roughly 47 YEARS before Edison was born.

And we won't even get started about the fact its been proven that ancient Egyptians were the first ones to create the battery using clay jars, an iron bar, and some kind of electrolytic solution. Volat merely REcreated the battery... and Edison had nothing to do with it.

All of which? Occurred before the US penny was ever created.
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panhandle_shovelheadrider
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Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:32 am    Post subject: not to mention Tesla Reply with quote

dbdraggin wrote:
Edison didn't try at all to make the first working battery. Not even with 6,781,276,809,297,889,723 tries.

Count Alassandro Volta, sometime around 1800, did.

Roughly 47 YEARS before Edison was born.

And we won't even get started about the fact its been proven that ancient Egyptians were the first ones to create the battery using clay jars, an iron bar, and some kind of electrolytic solution. Volat merely REcreated the battery... and Edison had nothing to do with it.

All of which? Occurred before the US penny was ever created.
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panhandle_shovelheadrider
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Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:37 am    Post subject: maybe Babe Ruth was better example Reply with quote

Babe Ruth struck out 1,330 times in his career (1914-1935)
to his 714 home runs.You have to strike out some to hit home runs.
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dbdraggin
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Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Babe Ruth was a better example. At least the reference is correct, unless of course you had said he was scoring touchdowns and not home runs. And actually, Nikola Tesla had nothing to do with the battery either, as he lived around the same time and was Edisons competitor. Tesla was an inventor out to invent, Edison was a pirate out to make money from his inventions as well as ones others did and he took credit for... and that's what drove him, money.

Do yourself a favor, when you quote someone just type your reply to them below their quoted message in the message box. When you put your reply in the subject line in the entry field above theirs like you've been doing, it both tremendously limits your space to type a reply and unless they specifically look in the wrong place on each of your quoted posts, no one can even see your reply.

That said, I've been a long time lurker of this place for a long time, only recently did I create an account here to actually participate because I plan on starting my build soon. I've seen where a lot of people have used many things for heating their ovens all over the net.

I believe what the others are trying to tell you is not that your idea is bad, or that it wont work, just that there are other cost effective and better performing ways to go about heating an oven. Especially when you say
Quote:
it seems like a better way to go than nichrome and saw it done in here
... they're just telling you that you are wrong in that assumption, in the nicest way possible even.

If money is an issue, as is gathered between your motivational additions, quotes, and edits, then that is one thing, and if you're just trying to reinvent the wheel for the sake of doing so then that is commendable. Both are respectable reasons, but need to be made clear in your posts because people are always going to assume that you're in roughly the same boat as them, which may not be the case.

Maybe a good start would be finding out how much the typical nichrome wire setup has cost others, that way you know what dollar amount you need to be under to save yourself some bucks on your build. Easy example? if you can build the nichrome setup for 40 bucks total, and you can buy something else that you feel is a suitable replacement with potentially lower but acceptable-to-you performance at the benefit of lower cost, then you know that the alternative to nichrome is your way to go.

One thing I can say for sure that I've gathered in my time here and many other places, is that thicker plastic needs even heating, no way around it. So if you're forming something thick, you may be wasting your time or money on something that wont work for a source of heat. If you're forming something thinner, then less even heating won't be as much of an issue.
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panhandle_shovelheadrider
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Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject: I just want to use what I have on hand first if possible Reply with quote

I know that an oven element works as I think that Qvack post on here shows an excellent build .Not to mention regular kitchen ovens.I have one that works for heating plastic.
The industry is going to Halogen heating elements. My point is the best way to have one is to buy a stetler creative 2x2 former.
I can afford nichrome.I want to make one with what I have on hand .I have on hand or access to appliance parts from stove and dryers for free.
I am not trying to knock any one else build I have Thurston James book and have read it and can do it that way.
I was a molder in the us navy and know molding and pattern-making and I want to make prototypes for motorcycle parts.
and yesI think windows suck and there is a better way I use Linux ;but what the hay


"Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow " Linus Torvalds
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Fredo
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Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 251
Location: Kingdom of Nye Area 51

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you start using expensive plastic, you will begin to rethink oven design. Ni-chrome offers the cheapest way to zone control of the heat delivered to your plastic. With oven elements the edges of .125-.250 ABS will never get hot enough to form, without over heating the center. Build it, see how far it will take you. You'll be that much farther along the learning curve, when you build your next one. I ate up a few hundred bucks in cheap abs to learn my former, and only rebuilt parts of it twice. They seem to develop a personalty of their own. They will tell you what they want, but like a woman, it's up to you to figure out what that is and then give it to them, if you get it right, then your set. Forming plastic is so easy when you get it right........Fredo

_____________________________________________________________
I think windows suck too, I only use them when the husband gets home early
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panhandle_shovelheadrider
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Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:12 pm    Post subject: qvac uses a shield Reply with quote

he has a piece of metal in center to restrict heat in middle.I have done this in in powder coating oven and this helps
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