www.TK560.com

IMMark · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:21 am Post subject:

What is the distance of the lower oven away from the plastic?
I always wondered about that, with the sag of the plastic.
Thanks
Mark

Jay-J · Newbie Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Posts: 17 Location: US

Wow Doug,

That sounds like a slick design, do you have any pics you can share? Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it.

jdougn · Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:55 am Post subject:

IMMark · Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:11 am Post subject:

That sounds like a nice (next oven) for me Smile

Do you have any pictures of it set up?
Also, as a side note...how the heck do you post pictures here??
Mark

RRK4 · Novice Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 58

Has anyone used like a teflon coated hotplate for the underside oven or does the plastic stick?

BTW, that thermoforming101 is and awesome resource.

kayaker43 · Expert Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 175

Jay did finally contact me. When people mention radical changes like he mentioned with drasticly dropping the watt density, my first reaction is to step back and stay out of it. I pretty much probed the boundries of acceptable oven performance and can see when someone is going down a bad road. You can't do too many things wrong and still expect to form thick plastics well.

I try to support plans purchasers and did give him some direction and sources to give him a starting point. My oven kit prices were too much for Jay and I just didn't have a good alternate source for the right board other than mcmaster carr. I noticed a recent thread refrencing a source for ceramic fiber boards. I follow up on every lead I see but always reject them for various reasons once I get samples. The stuff I use has just the right balance of low density, strength and durability. Unfortunately you can't find it in the US. I had to purchase 2000lbs of surplus new stock and cut it up myself.

As soon as I can find a reliable source for oven boards that's just as good as what I have and one that sells small quantities, I'll quit selling kits and let builders get it themselves. I barely break even on oven kits yet many think I'm gouging because they still look like some cheap bare wire on a slab of hardiboard. I'm glad this crowd seems to have finally moved past the days of hardiboard and vacuum cleaners.
_________________
Doug Walsh
www.build-stuff.com
Hobby-Vac and Proto-Form machine plans

Also other plans books and videos for people who like to build things

jdougn · Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:57 am Post subject:

RRK4 · Novice Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 58

I totally appreciate all the info on this website and the access to experts on the subject but I don't think you guys really want to start discouraging less professional applications of the technology. This is a hobby forum isn't it? I guess if its an either or then I would prefer the more pro slanted stuff but I gotta think there are many more people out there interested in something closer to kitchen oven/pegboard platten/shop vac end of things rather then the double sided nichrome oven/pneumatic cylinders/20 gallon tank/Gast pump etc. I find myself somewhere in the middle. From an outside perspective as this forum has gotten more informed it has gotten less accessible and less active. Still I like it and its the best I have found on the subject, just my perspective as someone new to the forum.

kayaker43 · Expert Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 175

I agree with RRK4 and I wouldn't be in business if it weren't for my little book showing how to use kitchen ovens and shopvacs. I'm in the middle of a tug of war though as a business. Aside from the obvious fact that there's no money in the low end side of that spectrum, I continue to stay involved with it. The problem is when the novelty of making poorly formed thin styrene parts wears off, even the hobbyists start wishing for more performance. The web is full of free info to build a lousy performing machine. I'm trying to help those who need to get a job done right on the first try and have no time or inclination to re-invent the tools to do it.

I'm at the decision point whether to update and expand the book, or develop plans for larger machines. Either one can take 6 months to a year before I see any payback. The book will help a lot more people but not neccessarily me. The original book was succesful but the world is changing regarding information sharing. People used to be thrilled to pay for knowledge that saves them time. Now people are more inclined to grab some free info off the web even if its bad info. Sadly all info looks the same when you don't know the difference. I'm not sure a second book will be worth my time to write?

The second generation Proto-Form machine will be much easier faster and cheaper to build with no welding. I also recognize that the vastly simpler flip frame concept works better than it should. I may do another set of plans for a thoroughly optimized version of that. You can see that I'm trying to get closer to the hobbyist side of things by staying cheap and simple.

When you sell something though, it comes with huge obligation to safety. I just can't use or reccomend materials like hardiboard in a way that's far beyond their intended use. Unfortunately, the good materials cost much more.
_________________
Doug Walsh
www.build-stuff.com
Hobby-Vac and Proto-Form machine plans

Also other plans books and videos for people who like to build things

Jay-J · Newbie Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Posts: 17 Location: US

I too agree with RRK4, there are many applications for this process and some will probably do fine with a more rudimentary machine. And I don't say that with any negative connotation.

When I first started this thread I was in the initial hyper state of eagerness which lead me to ask questions about the things I understood least. I have learned more about those things since then and I am still learning. I also had my heart set on building a 4' x 4' machine but have since reconsidered, twice to be exact. I had a few projects in mind that would have required a larger platform that 2' x 4' and I would have liked the bigger machine for future unknown projects as well. After calming down, considering power consumption, shop space, and that I would generally be using only half the machine capacity, I decided to go with the 2' x 4' build. I have also decided to buy Doug's "fast heat" kit to build the oven. The reasons I chose not to buy it at first were because I was still intending to build a 3' x 4' machine which would have required the purchase of two separate kits, and also being a DIY type I wanted to explore other options. At this point I just want to get the machine built and start forming.

Thanks for all the info and input everyone, it's truly appreciated.

RRK4 · Novice Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 58

jegner · Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject:

I do appreciate everyone's input on this subject. Kayaker43's ProtoForm plans are the cats' meow when it comes to really dandy vacuum formers.

I started the site back when I was first discovering mold and prop making, and my needs were simple; build a vac form machine that could make trooper armor on the cheap for a fan film. It has sort of evolved from there.

Are there better plans than Doug's? IMHO, no. Are there cheaper ways of making a vac forming machine than the ProtoForm? Yes. Are there other materials/components/methods for making your own vacuum formed parts? Sure, but you the hobbyist have to find what works best for you. This site was started to share those ideas. This is after all suppose to be a fun hobby, and there are loads of talented and creative folks sharing their ideas.

Unfortunately for me, between the economy, and my work schedule, I don't do much vacuum forming or prop making much these days. If/when I get back into it, I plan to use Doug's plans to build up a more robust machine. But I am still happy with what I learned, and was able to make with my Thurston James' inspired machine. A lower cost, easier to fabricate ProtoForm machine would we a wonderful addition for the Hobbyist. To me the ProtoForm is more of a production tool, than a hobby machine.

Jim

IMMark · Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject:

First to Jim, thanks for this wonderful collection of information on th TK560 site! All of the time and work that must go into this site is greatly appreicated!
I too bought Protoform Plans, I did so with the knowledge that I was going to do my own thing. So there were parts that I could not use, parts that I could've used that aren't part of the plans. But if I had it to do over again, I would purchase them again. They give you a head start on things, and what they save you in time & materials is well worth the purchase price.
Doug has also been helpful after the fact . Where I had questions, he had answers and suggestions.
Thanks
Mark