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The I-Folds 12"x12" little Twister

 
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Fredo
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Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Location: Kingdom of Nye Area 51

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:03 pm    Post subject: The I-Folds 12"x12" little Twister Reply with quote

I built this 12"x12" flip flop as a companion to my 2'x2' I-Fold but at 1200 watts it was just to hot. Now it not only flips and flops, it also twists. I had planed on making it as a complete self contaned vacuum former but got lazy an went without a tank and plumbed it straight off my 6cfm yollow jacket. The insulation is 1in. 17#per cu.ft fiber board and 1 inch 8#cuft fiber blanket. The frame is 3/4 in .065 sq. steel tubing. The platen is preforated steel with two layers of window screen under and sealed with alum. trim. Here's some pics I took as it was built.













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Fredo
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you,
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Last edited by Fredo on Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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93RMW
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Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 57
Location: Tulare, CA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:17 am    Post subject: Nice little former Reply with quote

Nice Job!

I do have one question. What is the purpose of the 'twist' part.
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Fredo
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It lets me turn the plastic while it's still in the frame. I'm able to pull .125 and .187 abs with out over heating and burning it. I get perfect pulls every time. I figured it was the only way to pull the thicker stuff. The flip flop is very limited when it comes to the thicker plastic. It only takes two seconds to turn the frame, and I do that about three times each pull with .125 and it takes about 5 min. each pull. I use the same outlet for the pump and the vacuum former. I turn the vaccum former oven off and the pump on when I pull. I turn the oven back on when I start the next pull. It has 8.33 watts per sq. inch. So instead of turning the power down, I decided to turn the plastic. Like they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat and this way works for me........Fredo
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If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you,
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taurus66
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Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting little machine you have there. I like it very much.. It has given me some ideas. I managed to get two work high vacuum pumps of ebay for £51. So will need to get mine up and running now as I just had a silly quote from a commercial company to pull some copies off my plug..
I figure i can get the cost down to a quarter what they are asking...
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Fredo
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:27 pm    Post subject: update: new floor Reply with quote

7-12-11

I cede to the wisdom of venting an overhead tile oven floor. It only makes good sense to keep an overhead tile floor as cool as possible....... Myself, I'm moving on to a different type oven floor, aluminum, that's right, aluminium, with substantial fiber insulation..... I know that sounds ridiculous to some , but oh well.... First I'm testing, maybe not the best test, but a test none the less, to see how hot a 1/8"x 11"x11" sheet of aluminum will get. It'll go in my 12"x12" oven a 1/4" above the 1200w cal-rod element. I'm curious as to how hot the aluminum will get, and how evenly the heat will be distributed across it's surface..... Why not turn the oven floor into a flat plate emitter, and raise it's temp by retaining all that waste heat. If the test seems promising I'll move to a larger oven. Tomorrow the test . The alum.plate is cut and the vf is loaded and ready for action...... Well... it may not be loaded, but it has plastic in it and it's ready for action....

7-13-11 7:00a

Put the alum.floor in this morning, it's a 1/4" above the cal-rod element. It took 20+ minutes to reach max temp. The temp in the center of the floor was around 450F and 650+F around the outside. The center still had the old heat shield under it. I wanted the center a little cooler and it seemed to work. I was averaging 5-51/2 minutes cycle time before I added the alum. floor. With the alum. 1/8 inch plate floor, cycle time was 3-1/2 minutes from the time the plastic was on the heat, till it was off the mold.... I turned the frame 4 times to heat both sides evenly.....It cut 1&1/2 to 2minutes off the previous times....Go figure....... No,I really mean it, go figure, and then come back and tell me why.... I thought it would be slower than before, but it's just the opposite...I have a piece of 3/32 alum. I'll test that next to see if it will reach a higher temp. faster. I'd like to be able to get the floor temp. up to about 750F..., 750F is well below the 1220F melt point., and I've read that an emitter temp. of 741F = 5.6 watts sq. in.....

The flip -flop is the Rodney Dangerfield of vacuum formers..., It don't get no respect..... Though, I see it's evolution as inevitable..... With extra frames and a helper to handle the frame change and load new plastic, there would be no down time between cycles....Having a frame that rotates 180 degrees, plus a quick disconnect for instant frame change, plus zone controlled heat, should get it a little more respect.... Another improvement could be an oven floor that moves up and down, while the walls remain in place. That would add the facet of adjustable distance from the plastic.....I feel a new type flip-flop can be more than just a stepping stone to an, up, down, machine.... Hey... I'm not knocking the Proto-Form or any one who copied the design because of it's proven capabilities.... It's copied so much because it works...and for some reason, people think it's cheaper to copy without plans..... It may be, if your time isn't worth anything......I want to clean up the flip-flops image and optimize its performance....I know a lot of you think I'm trying to put lipstick on a pig... Can't say I haven't tried that before........... [you know the old story, dressing farm animals up in clothes, but that's for another forum]....The only thing that can't be changed about the design is the fact that the plastic comes down at an angle..... Is that a big deal?......I don't know, I defer to those more knowledgeable than I to explain if it's unacceptably undesirable, and why, and to what extent it will affect a pull.....

I need to order a gallon of rigidizer before I can start on the 1" 24"x32" fiber board sub floor. It's to be 4 circuits, 2 zones, 220v, 6000 watts of embedded, sealed in place, elements. It'll have a gravity mount 1/8 alum. floor to start... I may even try a tile floor.... It would only take minutes to change... I'll start a new thread when I've made some progress on the oven...........Fredo
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If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you,
it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun...The Dalai Lama..Seattle 2001
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IMMark
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Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 189
Location: Columbus, Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting stuff Fredo, keep up the good work.
Testing, building, trying, learning....that is all fun stuff in my book!
Mark
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captmike
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Joined: 01 May 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Elberton, Georgia

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fredo, what kind of element is that? I need something that will heat across 12 x 12.
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Fredo
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Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Location: Kingdom of Nye Area 51

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a 1200 watt, 110volt, 12"x12" electric barbecue I bought at the Salvation Army store for $2.00. I insulated and added to it, and in the end it worked... You just gotta keep looking and you'll find something...
If you want to do it with little money, you need to improvise. That almost always means, never getting it right the first time...Fredo
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If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you,
it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun...The Dalai Lama..Seattle 2001
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jdougn
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Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 714
Location: Louisville KY area

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For oven building, HardiBacker & 22 gauge nichrome wire are fairly cheap if your limited on time. The big advantage is that you can build the oven any size you need.
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