www.TK560.com

[TK 109]

i'm making a stormtrooper helmet out of clay, and need help on finding clay. where do you find it, how much should i get for a trooper helmet, and how much does it cost?

when sculpting this hemet, i'm thinking of having a solid core, and building off of that, to save clay (and money!).

to cast a mold for a stormtrooper helmet, i'm gonig to need:

1. clay ($?.??)
2. silicon (same purple stuff in jim's molding and casting videos?)(around $30-$35)
3. fiberglass or plaster of paris to reinforce the silicone impression ($20 for plaster, $?.?? for fiberglass)

this would be my first time casting things, but NOT my first time sculpting things, so i'm interested in how this will turn out...

may need help with this project...

i heard plasticine clay is a bit expensive, so the chesper, firmer the clay the better.

thanks...
_________________
-Alex

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[TK 109]

http://www.amaco.com/prod-industrial-styling-clay-hbx-2-335.html

found this clay. 2 lbs for $12.59. what do you think of this stuff??
_________________
-Alex

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[jegner]

This topic sounds like a great idea for a new forum.

To answer some of your questions...

I use a plasticline [oil/wax basec] clay called KleanKlay and is pretty cheap, is not sulphur based, so it won't have an issue with your silicone mold material, and it comes in different hardnesses. You can warm it, to make the clay really soft, or freeze it to make it really hard. It's a wax based clay so it never sets. Good stuff.

http://www.sculpt.com/catalog_98/clay/kleanklay.htm

https://burmanindustries.com/estore/product.php?productid=172


or make your own: http://www.artforum.com.au/vtopic246.html&sid=17c0d24397e153fc99359751b3409f75

[Indigogyre]

Clay? Clay? You want Clay? You can't handle Clay!

To go off of what Jegnar posted. There are different types of clays. There are water clays and then there are oil based clays, and then there are clays with sulphur in them. Since you mentioned you want to use silicone to mold the sculpture then you should stick to sulphur free clays. Sulphur inhibits the curing of a good many different types of silicone. There are some silicones that are not affected but it's best not to have to worry about it.

So that leaves either water based clay or an oil/wax based clay.

Oil/Wax based clays come in multiple hardnesses and can vary on how they work with tools and get smoothed out. There are several different fine clays that are sulpher free. I'd not recomend Prima Plastilina, even though it is sulphur free it can be hard to get very smooth.

Other then clean clay Chavant makes a very nice sulpher free clay also which I heard is nice to work with.

Water based clays are really easy to work with allow for quick blocking out of shapes and take details nicely. The bad side is that you need them to be fairly thick, kept moist and they do shrink and can crack.

There is a special water based clay called WED (EM-217). It has some very nice properties to it and is what most of the mask making and special effects companies use if water based clays are called for. It is specially formulated and contains a percentage of glycerin instead of water which reduces the shrinkage and allows it to retain moisture better. DEpending on your area you might be able to get some locally. Wed clay is only made by the Laguna Clay Company. If it's not made by them it is not WED. http://www.lagunaclay.com/

I've known people to keep WED sculptures for months by covering them with a plastic bag and spraying them with a light mist every other day or so depending ont he tempature and climate. WED is relative cheap to buy in bulk, but expensive to ship.

I've molded a few sculptures and will feel free to insert opinions in that aspect when you are ready to hear them also.

PS NEVER use plaster of paris unless it's to make something for breaking.

Dean

[Culvan]

Interesting. I'm doing something very similar with a clone trooper helmet.

I used a styrofoam armature to save on clay. The process to make it was probably more expensive than th clay would have been, but the resulting model is much lighter. I think it's been easier to handle because it is lighter. You can see my progress so far in this thread: http://www.clone-empire.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1151

I'm using Klean Klay as well. I'm buying it for $1.75/lb from a local art supply store. You'll have to look for the fancier art supply stores to get it. You might look on Chevant's webpage for their local distributors and see where they are being sold. There's a good chance that those stores sell both. The clays are different. Chevant is a very firm clay and the softest chevant is harder then the firmest Klean Klay (at least that's what they said where I bought it). I've read that some people have trouble with Chavant's firmness. I haven't had too much trouble with the Klean Klay.

I'm starting to look into the casting part of this project too. Studiocreations has a website that goes into pretty good detail. They use plaster/hydrocal and their methods are fairly cheap. I used their techniques when I made the stormtrooper helmet in my avatar. I think I lost something in the molding process though so I'm going to try the more expensive route next. Smooth-on has a pretty good tutorial on the basic process using their rebound 25 product. http://smooth-on.com/rebound.htm

I figured that I would need about 4 pints of the silicon to get a 1/4 inch layer on my model, that could be done with 2 trial kits for a little over $60. That leaves me with no room for error. I think I'm going to get a gallon kit of dragon skin (gallon kit makes about 2 gallons) and add a thicking agent to it to make it brushable. It will be more expensive overall, but I'll have material left over that I can cast into soft rubbery parts.

Andy

[Indigogyre]

Culvan hits upon a good topic with firmness. Each clay has it's own firmness properties and the same clay can come with different firmness properties.

Firmness is more of a personal preference then a need. There are some needs that the clay cannot be so soft that you are going to loose details when you start molding your sculpture. You want something that is at least a medium to hold up to the molding process but that is something you can work with.

Find the best local art supply store and go check thier stock of clays to get an idea of the firmness you can work with. Remember that what seems ok in the store might get tiresome to work with after even 15 - 20 minutes if it is a hard clay.

I just went and found my sample box of clays and there are three I would recommend: The NSP - Soft, Professional Plasteline and DaVinci Firm (Which is still soft). In order of firmness they go DaVinci, NSP and then Professional. These clays were sitting in my storage area and are cooller so would be as firm as they are likely to get without freezing.

I'm 95% sure I have some kleen clay around here to compare them to. I'll have to did around for that later but might not be able to get to that until Thursday.

I'm a bit heavy handed and when I had the time was going to switch to a easier clay to work with. Kleen Clay and the different Chavant's were the ones I was looking at. If you have a business or can simulate one you can order a sample box from Chavant that contains a small sample of all of thier clays. This way you can see the clay and feel the properties up front.

There are various ways to preheat clay to make them softer while working though. I tried some Roma that was very firm and to warm it up it would go into a microwave and then I would work with some of it. Honestly, that's not the best way. A good alternative is to make sort of a warming box with a 100 watt standard light bulb and keep you clay under that.

Here is a big tip: Try about 5 pounds of the clay before committing to a large amount. I currently have 15 - 30 pounds of two different types of clay that I never plan to use again since I do not like them. Sometimes you will not find out until you get your first project done.

Dean

[TK 109]

thanks for the info guys.

the make-your-own-clay idae intrigues me... BUT...

would it be worth a shot?
_________________
-Alex

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[clonesix]

Will you be casting the helmet in resin? Fiberglassing? Or vacu-forming?

I have done a few of these, and each final product has unique path to completion. If you can offer more information regarding the final result desired, I can offer more (useless) advice. I have a thread in the costume section on helmet sculpting. Foam sculpting isn't for everyone, but I prefer it as a modeling tool.

Clay? Water clay, the same stuff you made ashtrays out of in kindergarden, is 50lbs/$12. You can mold, or vacuform right over it, and when you are done, just throw it away.

I can't think of any advantages to plastilina that would justify its use on a project like this. This is my opinion, after all, and it has the same value as anything opinion you will find on the internet.

[fast_monte]

Another way to go may be machinable wax, you can make your own check out this thread. http://www.tk560.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=967

James

[jegner]

Clonesix has lots of experience on this subject. He has done some mighty fine work. TKBig did a sculpt using porcelain clay. He kept the mold covered with a damp towel during the weeks of sculpting to keep it workable. Water based clays will crack and shrink if the water is allowed to evaporate. They also dry out over time making the surface hard to work with without adding more water.

All sculptors will tell you to find a medium YOU like and stick with it. To make something like the TK helmets, clay is a good medium, and finding one you like is all up to you. I'm a wood worker. And don't do everything in clay, but do from time to time, and I like the regular old Klean Klay. Some folks like Playdough.

[TK 109]