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Everwolf · Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:30 pm Post subject: Tanks

I was having a difficult time try to find some tanks for my machine I want to build. Buy a tanks is costly and finding a old water heater was not going well for my area. So I was outside walking my dog in my backyard and saw them. Two rather large sized propane tanks. the previous owner had set up a gas fire place in the house but left the tanks empty. I use the fire place as a book shelf since I have never used it. So I got what information I could off the tanks, in order to find out if these would work.

Here is what I came up with:

Type ICC-4BA240
Dimensions: 12 x 45
Material: Welded ALLOY STEEL
PSI Rating: 240
Water in lbs: 239

I am not sure if these will work or if I just need the one. Plus I can't find gallons but they look like they could be 30 gal. tanks. Plus I am concern about the rust on them.

What do you guys think?
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Everwolf

"Pain heals, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever." -Shane Falco

PARATECH1 · Expert Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 112 Location: ALABAMA

They look like pretty good tanks dude. Good find.

The surface rust shouldn't be a problem. Just sand it off and see whats underneath. You could also take the nozzles off, stick the tank in a dark place and shine a flashlight inside. See after you've sanded it down if you see any light bleeding through. If there are no thin places where you have sanded you should be O.K.

spektr · Master Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 425

those are good tanks.. I doubt if there are any issues with them. Get the valves unscrewed if you can, they restrict flow a bit..

jegner · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:06 pm Post subject:

Be careful using 'used' tanks. You never know what sort of dangerous fuels or chemicals might have been used in them. Check with MSDS to see if there is a proper way to clean certain old fuel cylinders.

Also, be sure to know the tanks are empty. Be very careful when removing valves, is gas was stored in them, you could ignite any residual fumes!

Just be careful. Yes, these tanks do indeed appear to be just what you need. Switching out the fittings for larger diameter ones would be a good move.

JIM

Stomper · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:01 am Post subject:

If you are planning on using those tanks for vacuum reservoirs, they will work splendidly, however DO NOT use them for compressed air reserves, as they may lack the internal protective coating that air tanks have due to the inevitable moisture that builds up in air tanks. As Jim said, be careful when releasing any residual propane left inside.

FYI- (another boring physics lesson)

Propane aka LP is "Liquefied Propane" and exists in those tanks in two states or "phases"... liquid and vapor (gas). The liquid sits in the bottom of the tank and the volume of that liquid changes with the ambient temperature... the warmer it is, the lower the liquid volume and the higher the vapor (and pressure), and vice-versa when it is cooler. When the valves are opened to atmosphere (or when the burners to the fireplace are lit) the pressure in the tanks is released and the vapor escapes (obviously), while this happens the liquid phase boils off into vapor, trying to "fill the hole" left inside the tanks.

If you rapidly vent the tanks (briefly), you will notice the sides of the lower portions of the tanks getting cold (sometimes even frosting up if left open long enough)... this is from the liquid phase boiling off into a vapor... this also indicates the level of the liquid (that frosty area). If you slowly bleed them until they stop "hissing", then let them sit for a couple more hours fully open to atmosphere, you should be able to safely pull a vacuum on them.

Fire safety Information-

The 3 required things for a fire are fuel, oxygen, and an ignition source... take away any ONE of those three and you can't start a fire, nor can a fire already burning continue... keep that in mind when you empty those tanks!! Wink

One more piece of trivia... propane is also known as R-290 which has almost identical refrigeration properties/performance as R-22... commonly called "Freon", except propane is FLAMMABLE, and it wouldn't do to fill your duct work (and house) with it if your A/C coil sprung a leak... sheesh, here I go talking about my profession again... I need some sleep!! Shocked

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Tony Krewson
FEAR... is not my god!!

Everwolf · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:47 pm Post subject: Thanks for the help

Thank you for the information.

I did some research and all I could find was them saying to thoroughly rinse out the tank with water. They held propane.

What is the difference between vacuum reservoirs and compressed air reserves?

I am also having difficulty getting the nozzle to unscrew from the tank. The is a white substance around the threads that seems to be holding it in place. Any thoughts on how to remove it with out damaging the tank?
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Everwolf

"Pain heals, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever." -Shane Falco

jegner · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:53 pm Post subject:

I'm sure others can give you the specifics, but a vacuum is only about 14.7 psi at sea level. You run a higher chance of the side of the tank sucking in under a vacuum. Thin wall tanks won't hold up well in this situation. There use to be a video of a soda machine tank's walls sucking in. High-pressure tanks are made to hold, well, high pressure compressed air/gas/whatever.

Everwolf · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject:

Ok Yeah I saw that video. I really don't want that to happen to my tanks that would kind of suck. They seem like they are pretty thick walled but I should know more once I can get the value off. Man that thing is a pain.
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Everwolf

"Pain heals, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever." -Shane Falco

jegner · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:04 pm Post subject:

That sticky goo is a thread paste, and might move with some heat, but be triple sure your tank is fume free, and no chance of any explosive gases! Be careful! Let the tank just sit for a few days with the valve open. Then you could warm it with a heat gun.

Stomper · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:59 pm Post subject: Re: Thanks for the help

PARATECH1 · Expert Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 112 Location: ALABAMA

In my above post I was wrong in taking for granted that the tanks were already empty. Just like Jegner and Stomper stated - Before you even think of unscrewing the valve bases from the cylinders, make sure the tanks are empty. Open the valve up and listen for any pressurized gas type sound. Do this away from any ignition source. You can also sometimes see the fumes in the air kind of like car gas fumes you might see when filling up your gas tank. Leave the valves open for a few days.

Here's a link on how to best remove a propane regulator on your type of tanks.

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?t=30748

tinkerage · Joined: 27 Apr 2009 Posts: 4

They recommend that you fill a propane tank with water as a mechanical means to expel the residual fumes. It also removes on of the three necessaties of combustion, air.

This is a fairly common practice when 55 gallon drums are opened.
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Jake