www.TK560.com

jdougn · Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:51 am Post subject:

Not to be repetitive, but on the double oven setup I recently built I used a panelized or modular system that I think will drastically reduce the potential for cracks in the Hardibacker. This concept was stolen from the 2x4 Proto-Form build by TD1035 which is Doug Walsh's design. For my build, Hardibacker was used instead of ceramic fiberboard or whatever. Embarassed

Picts from TD1035 Proto-form build thread

Link to the TD1035 2x4 Proto-Form Build http://www.tk560.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1162&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Frankly, if someone could find an approriate substitue for the Hardibacker in a reasonable price range I'd probably use it for the next build. The only stuff I can find is $500-$600+.

dn
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DougN - Just in case you're wondering, I got my "rating" legitimately... by posting aimless drivel, useless advice, and pointless questions.

jdougn · Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:55 am Post subject: Post your sources please!

felixx · Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:53 pm Post subject:

Agreed, i like the way this turned out (the thread), I would be interested in seeing how that is wired up.
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kayaker43 · Expert Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 175

I have people who think I charge too much for my oven kits, but I've been struggling with this material issue for 12 years. I have to buy more than a ton of material and cut it myself, then store it and wait maybe 2 years to sell it all off. I make a fair profit on my kits but its really not worth my time and trouble, I just do it to support plans sales. If you really duplicate my kits by finding all the parts yourself, it will usually cost the same or more than what I sell them for.

One of my customers found an online source for ceramic fiber that seems like a very good price per sheet but of course the shipping will be very high. I've asked him to post his info and experiences here if he buys some. You have to buy 8 sheets so you could sell what you don't use, but I think the shipping again would kill you??
_________________
Doug Walsh
www.build-stuff.com
Hobby-Vac and Proto-Form machine plans

Also other plans books and videos for people who like to build things

jegner · Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:43 am Post subject:

I've dug up my old research from 5 years ago. The following are some potential 'brand' names for the generic 'calcium silicate millboard'

Calcon
CS85 - Calcium silicate board
Dynaguard - microporous silica board
Marinite P, C, M - not sure the best version. - Calcium silicate board
Super Isol - Calcium silicate board
Transite - Fiber Cement board

But of the half dozen suppliers of these materials, all are geared towards industrial use/applications and NOT to the retail or individual sheet. I'm providing this list in the hopes that someone can track down a retail supplier.

jegner · Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:52 am Post subject:

Here is a recent quote:

1/2" Marinite I, 45 Lbs. and 40 Lbs. density.

36 x 60 x 1/2" cost $190.20 + a $45 crate charge

www.Monoco.com

FYI, and still searching.

kayaker43 · Expert Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 175

At the risk of losing sales on my oven kits, I still want to help out the low budget homebuilders. Here's a source for ceramic fiber board that one of my customers found.

http://www.ceramicfiberonline.com/checklogin.html

I don't like the fact that you can't even get on their site until you register, and I still can't get on even though I did!!! I'm also told that when contacted by phone they have a heavy foreign accent and the prices seem too low, so use caution when dealing with them.

My customer says they sell a box of 8, 24 x 48 sheets of 1/2 thick, 16 lb per cubic ft. ceramic fiber board for $160 plus shipping. I would expect it to cost around $100 for shipping, or more if they have handling charges to cover packaging. I also expect some of the sheets would have damaged corners after the UPS gorillas play with it.

My early Hobby-Vac kits used a similar material and I didn't like it. The soft density was hard to work with and ship. I had a high scrap rate when it was shipped to me, and lost more when I shiped it. Imagine shipping gypsum board but softer and without the paper backing to hold it together. You can buy heavier densities but then the price goes up and the shipping goes crazy. This material also smokes badly at first to burn off the organic binder, then seems weaker afterwards.

I now use a calcium silicate board that is thinner and more durable. My source won't help you because I had to purchase over 2000 lbs to get a decent price. Its all cut up for my oven kits so I can't sell larger pieces.

Just trying to share, and maybe I'll find a better source from this forum too?
_________________
Doug Walsh
www.build-stuff.com
Hobby-Vac and Proto-Form machine plans

Also other plans books and videos for people who like to build things

Fredo · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:15 pm Post subject:

I've bought both fiber blanket and fiber board from www.mcgillswarehouse.com. The 8#cu.ft. 1in.x24in.x25ft.roll is $61.32 plus ups ground. The 17.5#cu.ft. 1in. x 24 in. x36 in. fiber board is $129.81 a case, 6pc. per case ,1 case min.plus ups ground. Silica dioxide can be used to harden the surfaces of both board and blanket, before and after exposure to high heat. I bought a gal. on eBay for $50, but that was a couple years ago. Fiber blanket is like sex, ya gotta try it before you can believe how really great it is ..........Fredo

Grandpa · Newbie Joined: 17 May 2009 Posts: 6

I found a source a few months ago when I was building an oven that had 18" x 24" x .5" 40 lb for $29.95. This size worked out great for my modular design.

Here is contact info:

Art Glass Supplies Plus

2721 10th street, wyandotte, MI 48192

p: 313 887 1963

http://www.artglasssuppliesplus.com

The website isn't working, so you may want to try calling them.

kayaker43 · Expert Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 175

The link was bad or they let their domain lapse??
_________________
Doug Walsh
www.build-stuff.com
Hobby-Vac and Proto-Form machine plans

Also other plans books and videos for people who like to build things

Fredo · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject:

It just came up twice for me?.............Fredo

kayaker43 · Expert Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 175

I just get a generic search page like they use for unregisted domain names? Nothing on there about insulation boards, just links to different companies.
_________________
Doug Walsh
www.build-stuff.com
Hobby-Vac and Proto-Form machine plans

Also other plans books and videos for people who like to build things

lobosmedic · Newbie Joined: 30 May 2008 Posts: 15

p: 313 887 1963

The website isn't working, so you may want to try calling them.[/quote]

your guess is good as mine, as he said the site is down and I tried the number twice and got a "this number is not in service message".
_________________
That confusing tingle lets you know it's working
- Accuracy is a function of personal experience.

Grandpa · Newbie Joined: 17 May 2009 Posts: 6

It looks like they are no longer in business. I had no problems with them when I ordered a couple of months ago.

huskerplowboy · Joined: 15 Dec 2009 Posts: 1 Location: Iowa

Great forum! I'm gathering parts to build a vac table with my brother. I'm building the heater portion while he builds the platen, carts, etc.

Anyway, I've read the info on Hardibacker 500 and other similar tile backer boards. There are concerns about the durability and heat resistance of the hardi stuff, probably valid.

Has anyone considered using furnace cement to coat the hardibacker on the hot side for added heat protection? Here's some highlights from one I found with a quick google search:

- For setting and repairing furnaces, heaters, stoves, and boilers.
- Gas-tight and fire-proof.
- 2700 deg F max.
- Also a firebrick mortar.

A few years ago, I build a fornace for melting aluminum (propane fired) which is lined with a refractory made from furnace cement and garden store perlite. Hold in the heat well. It has some small cracks, not too big of a deal since it's lined with steel on the outside. Seems like maybe using some furnace cement with a 2500+ degree rating on the hot side of the hardibacker and ample support (carefully placed to avoid shorting of anything) on the backside could help with the cracking issues and/or provide additional backup support for when/if the Hardi does crack...

Thoughts?