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new proto form machine in the works
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KEASTAB
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Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 24
Location: Webster,florida

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: new proto form machine in the works Reply with quote

I'm a newby in the vacuform world and have just purchased the plans for a protoform machine with the 2x4 heating element kit. (plans have changed a little since I measured a couple of parts I need) it's still going to be 2' but not 4' I have a convertible top part that is long and narrow that is over 49 inches long and of course nobody repops it. I want it rust proof since that's a good reason to make it and that caused me to rethink the build. I have purchased the metal and started on the base cabinet. I've already started on some molds for the parts that I can make for my car and have got them 90% finished still need to smooth out some of the rough edges so that it looks good! here is some shots of the build so far
ok lets see if the gallery pic worked
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=417706981652258&set=a.417705738319049.1073741825.100002388804897&type=3&theater

looks like it did

what do you think
2'x6' proto form ,
30 gallon water heater,
6 CFM robinair (want a 10 later)
2'x 2' platen
2'x3' platen
2'x4' platen
2'x5' platen (for that long and narrow part I'll nest a couple ir 4 in there)
2'x6' platen just cause I built a 6' former (I don't really expect to use it but who knows)
I'll have to save up my pennies to get another heating kit to fill out the 6 foot section but that's MUCH later. I have my hands full just getting the
machine done and then working on the immediate 2x2 , 2x3 parts done
THEN I'll think about prototyping the top header seal bow channel.

now how the devil do you insert a picture in here instead of linking it???
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IMMark
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Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 189
Location: Columbus, Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Keastab
Looks like you are off to a good start.
The only thing I will say as you are planning your sizes...keep in mind that most plastic will come in 4 x 8 sheets...so if you make your sizes accommodate that it is to your advantage. So if you go with 2 x 6 instead or 2 x 5 , you could get two 2x6's and a 2 x 4 out of a single sheet. Just a thought?
As for the images, it has been awhile...but I think this works?;
Insert image: [img]http://image_url[/img] (alt+p)

Best of luck
Mark[/img]
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KEASTAB
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Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 24
Location: Webster,florida

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: proto form 2x6 Reply with quote

IMMark wrote:
Hi Keastab
Looks like you are off to a good start.
The only thing I will say as you are planning your sizes...keep in mind that most plastic will come in 4 x 8 sheets...so if you make your sizes accommodate that it is to your advantage. So if you go with 2 x 6 instead or 2 x 5 , you could get two 2x6's and a 2 x 4 out of a single sheet. Just a thought?
As for the images, it has been awhile...but I think this works?;
Insert image: [img]http://image_url[/img] (alt+p)

Best of luck
Mark[/img]



thanks I was just going to do a 2x4 setup(yeah 4 sheets for the price of 1!) until I ran into the longer piece. I even thought of setting the mold in diagonally to get it to fit on the 45 inch platten, nop itwas just going to be to long to fit by about an inch and a half #$%^%$^#$ darn thing just had to be bigger. I'll only need to make 30 or so (and I can nest 4 pieces per 2'x6 setup that should last me a couple of years and that will leave me with some 2'x4' sections. I'm going to 3 or 4 zone heat setup so that I can turn on either 2 foot 4 foot or 6 foot as needed (got a good electrician going to help me wire it up) along with the new breaker box that will be needed to carry the 6 foot setup's amperage. I only have a 60 amp service going to the garage now and have just purchased the 200 ft of heavy service entrance wire (00?? I think) gauge wire to re-run the garage and new 200 amp service box from the pole and meter. it cost a little more than I'd like but I don't want to burn up the garage! it looks like I'll be doing mostly 2'x2' parts right now until I get the learning curve over with and really learn how to mess things up!
I will play with the img posting process to get the pic's posted wheen more progress is made
thanks
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IMMark
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you may know, if you have 220 available (not sure if you are in the USA), but you can greatly reduce the Amps needed.
Good luck...sounds like you will be melting plastic before too long!
Mark
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KEASTAB
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Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 24
Location: Webster,florida

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMMark wrote:
As you may know, if you have 220 available (not sure if you are in the USA), but you can greatly reduce the Amps needed.
Good luck...sounds like you will be melting plastic before too long!
Mark


yep got 220 and a friend who's an electrician and he just ordered the 40 foot of 4 gauge wire and the 8 gauge length that I need along with the other assorted boxes and breakers switches and things (whew) I'm going to pick the electrical stuff up in a couple of days after they've got it in. and he's wiring it up for me in exchange for some computer and car repair. good deal on my part!

I hope it's soon on I've got some kick panels and side convertible top panels that need to be made for my car (nobody repops these pieces and I need 2 sets for sure.




hah just figured out how to post a pic in the message, COOL
Lemme do some more!



the start


the pieces coming together


making it square


one of the parts I'll need to make




oops I'll have to resize the pics these are WAYYYYYY to big.
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jdougn
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Joined: 18 Mar 2009
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Location: Louisville KY area

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Keastab! looks like you're off to a great start with your ProtoForm. The plans are great and take so much guess work out of the project. You'll like how it all goes together. Keep us updated on how everything works out!
DougN
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KEASTAB
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Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 24
Location: Webster,florida

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdougn wrote:
Hello Keastab! looks like you're off to a great start with your ProtoForm. The plans are great and take so much guess work out of the project. You'll like how it all goes together. Keep us updated on how everything works out!
DougN


that I will. I have been doing a little final work on the mechanical stuff and have painted the wood (not the cart yet) I had to drop the second shelf because the 30 gallon water tank I'm using wouldn't come out so I could paint it also. I just picked up my extra heating elements so I can go 2'x4' right now from the Proto-form designer and will have everything wired up for the 2'x6' setup so that when I need to run the 5 foot part I can just order the elements and turn it on! most of the parts I'm likely to run can fit either 2'x2' or 2'x3' so I'm safe with the 2'x4' elements. I'm still exploring the plumbing setup and valving of the platen I don't know if I'm going to go PVC unions and valve it

sort of
|__x__|__x__|
...........X
...........|_________x____
... vac-pump_chkvlv|__x__vac-tank

I'd like to find a 3 way valve that goes to the vacpump,off, and vac tank
so far looking on Mcmaster's all it does is confuse me, but I'll work on it.
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jdougn
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Location: Louisville KY area

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KEASTAB wrote:
...I'm still exploring the plumbing setup and valving
of the platen I don't know if I'm going to go PVC unions and valve it

sort of
|__x__|__x__|
...........X
...........|_________x____
... vac-pump_chkvlv|__x__vac-tank

I'd like to find a 3 way valve that goes to the vacpump,off, and vac tank
so far looking on Mcmaster's all it does is confuse me, but I'll work on it.


The system I used on my vac former was pretty simple and used standard
plumbing supplies but works well. I just used standard galvanized pipe for
the plumbing between the valves. Then used flexible vacuum hose
(rated at 29inHg) from MSC to go to the platen and tank. I usually form
2'x4' 1/4" ABS which takes a lot of vacuum. Plus, a lot of the molds are
6"-7" tall with large tented areas that require a lot of air removal.

It only uses two standard w.o.g. valves. One valve isolates the tank. The
other valve isolates the platen and pump. After the initial pull the tank is
"polluted" and has lost a lot of vacuum. The tank gets shut off leaving the
vac pump to maintain and increase the vacuum at the platen.


The first valve seals off the system so vacuum can build in the tank. The
platen is the only thing that is beyond this valve.
The pump is plumbed in between the first & second valve.
The second valve only seals off the tank.
In the configuration above, valve one is closed with the handle straight down.
Valve two is open allowing the vac pump to create vacuum in the tank.
hth, DougN
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KEASTAB
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Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 24
Location: Webster,florida

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdougn wrote:
KEASTAB wrote:
...I'm still exploring the plumbing setup and valving
of the platen I don't know if I'm going to go PVC unions and valve it

sort of
|__x__|__x__|
...........X
...........|_________x____
... vac-pump_chkvlv|__x__vac-tank

I'd like to find a 3 way valve that goes to the vacpump,off, and vac tank
so far looking on Mcmaster's all it does is confuse me, but I'll work on it.


The system I used on my vac former was pretty simple and used standard
plumbing supplies but works well. I just used standard galvanized pipe for
the plumbing between the valves. Then used flexible vacuum hose
(rated at 29inHg) from MSC to go to the platen and tank. I usually form
2'x4' 1/4" ABS which takes a lot of vacuum. Plus, a lot of the molds are
6"-7" tall with large tented areas that require a lot of air removal.

It only uses two standard w.o.g. valves. One valve isolates the tank. The
other valve isolates the platen and pump. After the initial pull the tank is
"polluted" and has lost a lot of vacuum. The tank gets shut off leaving the
vac pump to maintain and increase the vacuum at the platen.


The first valve seals off the system so vacuum can build in the tank. The
platen is the only thing that is beyond this valve.
The pump is plumbed in between the first & second valve.
The second valve only seals off the tank.
In the configuration above, valve one is closed with the handle straight down.
Valve two is open allowing the vac pump to create vacuum in the tank.
hth, DougN


ok let me see if I have this semi straight
platen to valve then to either vacpump and/or another valve. that valve goes to isolate the vac tank
sort of like this




hmm will I need a check valve between the vac pump and valve?
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jdougn
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Joined: 18 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KEASTAB wrote:
ok let me see if I have this semi straight
platen to valve then to either vacpump and/or another valve. that valve goes to isolate the vac tank
sort of like this


hmm will I need a check valve between the vac pump and valve?


Trade the location of the platen and vac pump and you've got it. With the platen plumbed off the end of the valving it can be isolated but the pump can still vacuum the tank. My system doesn't use a check valve and there hasn't been any problem. It may depend on the type of vac pump used.
dn
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KEASTAB
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Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 24
Location: Webster,florida

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok so it should be like this?>
I just switched parts like you wrote..... makes it a lot clearer to see the pattern of how it works
thanks
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Fredo
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Location: Kingdom of Nye Area 51

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the better HVAC pumps have a build in ck valves.. It keeps whatever from losing vacuum if there's a power outage... You could check, but I think your pump has a built in ck valve...
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KEASTAB
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Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 24
Location: Webster,florida

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks

the problem is that right now I have a harbor freight 3 cfm pump taking down a 30 gallom water tank, that does not qualify as a better vac pump. I'm saving up for a 10cfm Robinaire, that might have one in it but until then I'll plumb in a check valve in the vac pump line just to be safe. I have the vacu-former built and am now in the process of adding in the electrical and plumbing. it turned out ok (great on the metal work but sort of meh! on the woodwork.luckily it can be fixed. hey I can wrench and sling mud/bodywork and paint great, it's the wood stuff that messes with me! the electrician has ordered the 4 gauge wire I need to run to the unit and the rest of the wire and parts should be in next week! I just got the second set of heating elements and can't wait to start putting it together.
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Fredo
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a check valve from here http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Check-Valve---Heavy-Duty-14-NPT.html Really an interesting site to browse..
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jdougn
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KEASTAB wrote:
ok so it should be like this?>
I just switched parts like you wrote..... makes it a lot clearer to see the pattern of how it works
thanks

That is perfect! And thanks for taking the time to create the diagram.
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