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crashmann
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Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 501

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gobler wrote:
Shocked Hey Charile, what is the size of you vac table? 24x48??


It's 24" x 32" and the platen is 22" x 30" The table is just a little bigger than Jim's, and I get 6 pieces of plastic from a single 4' x 8' sheet from the supplier. The little bit of extra room has helped with forming large parts like the clonetrooper chest and abdomen. Now we just need to finish sculpting the rest of the armor!

Charlie
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drcrash
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Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crashmann wrote:
It's 24" x 32" and the platen is 22" x 30" The table is just a little bigger than Jim's, and I get 6 pieces of plastic from a single 4' x 8' sheet from the supplier. The little bit of extra room has helped with forming large parts like the clonetrooper chest and abdomen. Now we just need to finish sculpting the rest of the armor!


I think that's a nice size for an oven. A nice size for a bigger oven would be 32" x 48", if you want a 4-footer but don't need 4 feet both ways; you could get 3 pieces out of a 4 x 8 sheet, instead of just 2.

On average, square ovens aren't good. (Unless you're focused on something like stormtrooper breastplates that have about that aspect ratio.) For any given size square, something that won't fit one way won't fit the other, either, so you need a bigger square, and end up wasting part of the plastic within your frame. (As opposed to wasting plastic because your frames don't divide go evenly into sheets.)

I'm pondering making a 32 x 48 for doing neck-to-thigh torsos and other stuff on that scale. Some new friends have a warehouse I could leave it in, if they can use it too, so it's tempting.
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Tired of buying cheap plastic crap? Now you can make your own! www.VacuumFormerPlans.com
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drcrash
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Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 2:52 pm    Post subject: Exo-former 24 Reply with quote

Here's a commercial machine, the Exo-Former 24 from VacuGenic, that's worth looking at for ideas. Seems like a well-thought-out design.



http://www.vacugenic.com/index.html

The clamp frame guide lets you raise the plastic, flip it over, and bring it straight down. It doesn't give you any mechanical advantage (extra leverage), but for a 2 x 2 footer you can put most of your weight on it.

The oven uses nichrome ribbon in pretty much the way the TJ oven uses nichrome coil, i.e., a rectangular spiral with closer spacing around the edges, but with straight vertical aluminum oven sides and a mica floor. The ribbon zigzags between tabs in the mica, made by cutting C-shaped holes in the mica sheet. (Pretty much the way a nichrome waffle-iron's coils zigzag between ceramic insulators.) As with Hardibacker, you don't need any ceramic insulators, because the oven floor itself is one big insulator. (Unfortunately, big mica sheets aren't as cheap as hardibacker.)

http://www.vacugenic.com/exo24/htr_box.html

The wiring is set up for using multiple outlets on different circuit breakers.
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Tired of buying cheap plastic crap? Now you can make your own! www.VacuumFormerPlans.com
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gobler
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 30
Location: So Cal

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the price one could get a "Pro" thermo plastic forming table with pump at a Company here in Ca. But I d like the set up and yes the heating element has a good layout for even heating. Also I noticed they use 1/16 inch holes which I was thinking of doing for my table.

Cheers,
Jeff
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Hey, how hot does this plastic get?.....Holly JEEEZZ it burns!!!!
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drcrash
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Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 705
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gobler wrote:
For the price one could get a "Pro" thermo plastic forming table with pump at a Company here in Ca.


Yes, the price is ridiculous. It's obviously a cheap machine to make. (If it did come with a vacuum pump, that would easily be the most expensive part.)

One of the things that seems well-designed about it is how cheap and easy it must be for them to make it. (If they cut the holes in the mica with a machine, stringing the nichrome ribbon must be a breeze.)

Something like that should only cost a few hundred dollars, max, which I guess is one reason we make our own machines.
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Tired of buying cheap plastic crap? Now you can make your own! www.VacuumFormerPlans.com
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faithblinded
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Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also like his oven pattern, and the machine looks nice.

But for what he's asking, it should be constructed entirely of stainless, and have an integrated deep vacuum pump and tank setup. Pity the poor fool that buys his machine and only then stumbles onto this site. Quite a markup considering it's mostly someone else's engineering, lol. It's also odd that his wiring page had no option for 220V hookups.

Oh well, worth a look anyhow.
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TK 109
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Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 712
Location: Galena, Ohio

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Jim's Thurston James machine best:

Ooooohhhhh yea! Thanks for the plans, Jim! Cost: $300... Sad In my mind, its totally worth it! 5.0 HP wet/dry vac, nicrhome elements, and plastin in the background! (oops...)
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TK 109
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Joined: 11 May 2007
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Location: Galena, Ohio

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im working on a video, too.
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jegner
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Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 2144
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very cool!

Hey, thats a neat idea on the risers!

Thanks for sharing!

Jim
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remarque
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Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 22
Location: The Carolinas

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some pic of my former, finally workout all the kinks out it. My vacuum and seal so good I got a blow out on one of sheets of ABS. While it forming I heard a loud pop, at first I didnt know what it was until I looked at the sheet and seen that one of the corners had blown out.

I believe the best way to for ABS is to pre-heat. The sheets that I'm using know are of my first atempt. Once I start heating them they sag alot more and quicker and it gets alot softer.



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TK 109
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Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 712
Location: Galena, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confused Risers? Question
I don't get what you're pointing out, Jim. Are you talking about my machine? Confused Confused
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drcrash
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Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 705
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

faithblinded wrote:
I also like his oven pattern, and the machine looks nice.

But for what he's asking, it should be constructed entirely of stainless, and have an integrated deep vacuum pump and tank setup.


Actually, I prefer aluminum... the oven should be aluminum on the inside, anyway, because it's more reflective than stainless in the infrared. And it's lighter, which is a good thing in a portable machine.

(That's one of the nice aspects of that design... it folds up.)

But then there's the bling factor. Stainless sure is pretty.

At any rate, it should be a lot cheaper. It can't cost more than a very few hundred dollars to make. A 10x markup seems excessive.

Then again, I saw a company selling little over-and-unders very much like Ralis Kahn's sub-$100 machine for about $2000. Now THAT's excessive, since the oven is a Wal-Mart grill, upside down. (Without even my $8 hacks to even out the heat... just a $30 Wal-Mart grill upside down, with 4 boards around it to hide it.) And the platen is a $5 cookie sheet (also upside down) with some holes drilled in it. The best part is that you pay through the nose for their plastic in their oddball sizes, to fit a cookie sheet.
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Tired of buying cheap plastic crap? Now you can make your own! www.VacuumFormerPlans.com
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jegner
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Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 2144
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TK 109 wrote:
Confused Risers? Question
I don't get what you're pointing out, Jim. Are you talking about my machine? Confused Confused


Risers = anything you put under your molds, to help get better formed pieces. I usually use a MDF board, cut on a bandsaw at a 20 degree angle, the same size as the bottom of my mold, but some folks use pennies, and now we see you using boards. Great idea, and it improves air flow, and that equals better formed parts.

Jim
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TK 109
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Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 712
Location: Galena, Ohio

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh!! Duh! yeah! i realized what you were talking about just before i turned my computer off! Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
yeah, thanks a lot!
we have a HUGE workshop, so space for me was not a concern Smile
The risers i have under my chest mold (as seen in the pic there) are what i call "feet". that's the reason why i was confused by your respnose at first, because i call them feet, and you call them risers! OOpps!
I'm hoping to get some 60 gauge HIPS this week or the next, that's when i plan on shooting the video. most of the time, when it comes to vacuum-forming, i use your video as inspiration to get of my butt and just work fo it! thanks a TON for your input!! Very Happy
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drcrash
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remarque, I really wouldn't use bare wood for oven walls, especially with the outer coils so near the walls. A vacuum forming oven can get up to about the combustion temperature of wood, even though the thermoforming temperatures of most plastics are substantially lower.

At least cover the bare wood with flashing... that's cheap and easy. Two layers with an airspace in between would be better.
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Tired of buying cheap plastic crap? Now you can make your own! www.VacuumFormerPlans.com
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